In DAAN, the digital archive Sound & Vision the interviews and other material can be found with the search terms “Vastberaden maar soepel en met mate”
A historiography of the Netherlands from 1938 through 1948 based on interviews with mostly ordinary people about the crisis years, the brief revival from 1938, WWII and the decolonization of Indonesia interspersed with archival material including feature film and sound clips.
Beginning in the 1970s, there was a shift in perspective on WWII. It was no longer good to beat oneself up and only point the accusing finger at the collaborator, the Nazi or the criminal.
This change was reflected in the 1974 VPRO documentary. The emphasis was on the failure of the authorities and the mental kinship of collaborators and “ordinary” citizens. The story is an “anti-epic” of confusion, self-interest, doubt, helplessness and absurdity.
The interviews were made for the VPRO production Vastberaden, maar soepel en met mate. Memories of the Netherlands 1938-1948, by H.J.A. Hofland, Hans Keller and Hans Verhagen. Television broadcast took place on October 15, 1974 (2 hours 55 min.). An edited version was broadcast on June 29, 1977 and repeated on August 27, 1989.
The interviewees recount their memories of the last prewar years, World War II and the first postwar period from the different positions they held at the time. Sometimes they are authorities such as the politicians Burger and Schermerhorn, the historian Bouman, the communist resistance fighter Gortzak and also the press chief of Reichskommissar Seyss-Inquart, Willi Janke. In addition, however, several “ordinary people” are featured, on whose history in and around the war the producers especially wanted to emphasize. Examples include the Amsterdam-based Mrs. de Bruin and her friend, the resistance fighter De Graaf, the NSB member J.B. and the German soldiers stationed in the Netherlands during the occupation. Rasterhof, Van der Schaaf, Scheps and Slui give their views on the so-called Schokking affair. Mr. F.M.A. Schokking was mayor of Hazerswoude during wartime and played a role in the arrest of the Jewish family Pino. After the war, he became mayor of The Hague until the affair was brought up and forced him to resign. At Slui’s house, the Pino’s had been in hiding for some time during the war.
Most of the interviews were conducted by Hans Verhagen. Sytze van der Zee also participated in the interview with Willi Janke. The interview with Van Walsum – ultimately not included in the documentary – was conducted by Henk Hofland.
Chris Vos made an analysis of the documentary in his article ‘An indifferent history? The significance of the VPRO documentary Vastberaden, maar soepel en met mate for Dutch audiovisual historiography’, in: Yearbook of Media History 5, Amsterdam: Stichting Mediageschiedenis/Stichting beheer IISG, 1993, pp. 227-260. He did the same in his dissertation Television and Occupation. A study of the documentary representation of World War II in the Netherlands, Hilversum: Verloren, 1995, pp. 128-153.
In 1989 the documentary was repeated as part of the VPRO series TVTOEN. or: How Dutch Television Writes History. There the makers talked about the making of the film, their underlying ideas, the Schokking affair and about (former prime minister) de Quay refusing an interview.
The following were interviewed:
Henriette de Beaufort
H. Blok, Hoogovens, about the crisis years: the relationship between rich and poor; the provision of work; the injustice towards the common man
Mrs. de Bruin and Mrs. Anchelon, about the Germans in Amsterdam, who drove through the Kinkerstraat after only four days of war and about their irritation about the German language, which they kept afterwards
Prof. Dr. P.J. Bouman, former professor of history, about meetings, among others in Woudschoten, for the foundation of a broad people’s party, its elitist character, the search for new terminologies; Mussert’s role
J.A.W. Burger, about his work and political interest at the time
Henk Gortzak
Willi Janke, former journalist, on his work as a German press correspondent in the Netherlands; internment after the German invasion
J.B. Groningen, former NSB member
Cas de Graaf
Mr. P.J
Mrs. Kruger[s], retired warehouse manager, about the Germans’ good maps and weapons during the invasion
B.J. Kouw, representative from Amsterdam, about working at a young age, the merits during the crisis years
Gerrit Kouwenaar
J. Osten, about the first German soldiers in Scheveningen, after the invasion
L. Rasterhof
S.J. van der Schaaf
Prof. W. Schermerhorn, former prime minister, on the will to establish a broad people’s party; absence of an endangered feeling for Germany among the people
Daan Slui
G.E. van Walsum
Lex van Weren, former musician, on the revival of entertainment life from 1938; absence of fear of German Nazism; his position as trumpeter in the army; the German invasion
J.C. de Wit
J.H. Scheps
Mr. Kwiet
2 (anonymous) German soldiers
H.W. Speet, farmer, about the German invasion near ‘s Heerenberg
4 other ‘border residents