This interview series contains two series. See the hyperlinks for the Sound and Vision archive.

The first series is called “De schatkamer – De eerste getuigen van onze eeuw”:

Paul Julien 1901-2001

Interview with 93-year-old anthropologist and chemist Paul Julien. Julien talks about: his childhood in Utrecht; his exclusively science-oriented interest, as a result of which social and political developments during his youth eluded his observation; his expeditions to Africa and what he sees as the positive influence of colonialism on tribal war-torn Africa. Julien shows gloom about the future due to the decline in moral awareness and does not even consider it out of the question “…that we are heading for a Third World War.”

Hilda Verwey-Jonker 1908-2004

Interview with sociologist and former Member of Parliament Hilda Verwey-Jonker (1908) about her childhood on Zuid-Beveland and in Zwolle; the SDAP milieu in which she grew up; the position of women in the early twentieth century; sexuality as experienced by students; her grandchildren; the rise of right-wing extremism in the 1930s and her functioning in male-dominated strongholds such as the SER and the United Nations. Verwey-Jonker fears the consequences of the aging of Western society. According to her, poorer peoples will take over some of the prosperity without having the technical and scientific knowledge to deal responsibly with the environment.

Emile Schüttenhelm 1909-2003

Interview with former NTS president Emile Schüttenhelm (1909) about: the Catholic environment in which he grew up; World War I; rise and fall of communism; the rise of right-wing extremism in the 1930s; his participation in the World Jamboree in 1937 and his meeting with Lord Baden-Powell; his liberation in 1945 and the presidency of the NTS, for which he was asked because, according to Minister Cals, he was the only one who had a chance to “survive” in Hilversum.

Schüttenhelm reminisces about Henk Terlingen and looks positively to the future, since, according to him, every generation has the commitment and creativity the future needs.

The second series is called “De eerste getuigen van onze eeuw”:

Jan Tinbergen 1903-1994

Interview with Jan Tinbergen a.o. about his youth, the end of WW I, his study of physics in Leiden and his contacts with his teachers Paul Ehrenfest and Albert Einstein; his work at the Central Bureau of Statistics mn the fight against the crisis in the thirties; about his transfer in 1936 to the League of Nations in Zurich and the cooperation during WW II with experts on international law like Van Asbeck and van Eysinga t. His research into the role of international treaties; his passivism and anti-colonialism; the research by the CBS into the economic consequences of overseas territories and his criticism of Min. Drees’ attitude regarding de-colonialization policy. He also talks about his research into world issues such as developing countries and environmental problems, which according to him require a global approach through a world government and about receiving the Nobel Prize in 1969. Finally, he gives his vision of the future in terms of an economic balance between production and fairer income distribution and his desire for a more sober and idealistic society.

Willy Corsari 1897- 1998

Interview with Willy Corsari about her unhappy childhood, the artists’ milieu in which she grew up, the origin of the name Corsari, her studies of piano and singing and writing girls’ books, her memories of The Hague and Berlin where she took singing lessons, her life with Jean-Louis Pisuisse’s cabaret company and the history of his murder. She tells about the publication of her first books, including about euthanasia, and her love for the theater, which she stopped attending as a matter of principle during the war; the work of the resistance and helping Jews during the war years and the positive memories of the occupation period regarding mutual human relationships; about the publisher Leopold who committed suicide and her move to cooperative publisher Lubberhuizen/Blommestein (later De Bezige Bij), where she left after conflicts.

Arthur Lehning 1899-2000

Interview with Arthur Lehning about his exciting stay in artists’ and anarcho-syndicalist circles in Berlin in the 1920s and 1930s, the rise of fascism, his views on the political movements of the time, including the Spanish Civil War, his initiative to found the international politically engaged art magazine “i10” and the people, including Mondrian, Kandinsky and Nagy, who contributed to it. He recounts his childhood friend Marsman and the ideological conflict between them in the 1920s; regarding the Spanish Civil War, his reasons for actively supporting the socialist revolution and his stays and encounters there; his experiences in the internment camp on the Isle of Man, England, after the neutralization refusal, regarding his political activities, of the Netherlands, his activities regarding the Cold War and the Paris protest movement ’68. He calls the past century “this terrible age” and sees little positive prospect for the next one.

Jeanne Bieruma Oosting 1898-1994

Interview with Jeanne Bieruma Oosting about her childhood years in the affluence of noble and aristocratic circles; her early love of painting and her studies at the Art Academy in The Hague during which time she met Queen Wilhelmina. She talks about her teacher Van Konijnenburg, her impressionist painting style, her departure in 1929 with Charlotte van Pallandt for Paris and her 11-year stay there where she met Piccaso, among others, and became fascinated by the seamy and nightlife of this city; about her stay in the south of France after the outbreak of the war, the return to occupied Holland and the productive years in Amsterdam. Oosting talks about her painting and graphic work, including the design for children’s stamps and her self-portraits, the stroke that struck her and the happy life she enjoyed.

Chris Walder 1900-1997

Interview with Chris Walder about his childhood in Breda, where he learned to play soccer early on the streets, his first matches, the mobilization and outbreak of WWI and his training to become a notary; playing soccer at NAC, the various matches for the Dutch championship and the various NAC players around 1920-’21; the national championship of NAC, after which he was selected for the Dutch national team. He talks about the fact that back then there was no training program for the team and the big difference with today’s soccer.

He believes he could have come along now as well, because it always remains about the talent.

Cor de Roos-Oudegeest 1899-1998

Interview with Cor de Roos-Oudegeest about her background, memories of the railroad strike of 1903, her father Jan Oudegeest (chairman of the NVV and SDAP politician), WWI and the support committee; the reactions in Dutch socialist circles to the Russian Revolution, her joining the SDAP and her activities for the SDAP women’s union, the rise of communism and fascism and the outbreak of WWII, the occupation years and her husband’s resistance work.

She talks about politics after the war in the Dutch East Indies, about the views of Minister Drees regarding the inferior position of women, her entry into the Lower House for the PvdA in 1956 and the reasons for leaving active politics behind. She sees the greatest changes in this century as the great growth of prosperity and participation, but also a much more selfish society, which makes her feel less positive about the future..

Ten huize van … is a Flemish talk show that first appeared on TV1 (Eén) in 1957.

Each episode, presenter Joos Florquin visited a Famous Fleming or Famous Dutchman and interviewed him in his own home. For three days he installed himself in the home of the person in question, while his camera crew shot footage. Most of the interviewees were from the political or cultural world. The first guest was Gerard Walschap. More than 250 followed. The interviews centered on the interviewees. They were able to talk freely and were only in the picture themselves. In other words, true oral history.

Over the decades, Florquin interviewed an impressive number of people. The interviews were written down afterwards, compiled and published in a series of books. When Florquin died in 1978, the program was also stopped for a long time.

Only in the 1990s did new episodes appear around “At the home of”, this time with Edward De Maesschalck as interviewer (34 episodes). From 2003 Frieda Van Wijck took over the presentation.

An overview of many of the interviewed:

The interview was incorporated into Nieuwenhof’s article “Paul Charles Joseph Kiès,” in: Mededelingenblad. Orgaan van de Nederlandse Vereniging tot beoefening van de Sociale Geschiedenis no.35, Amsterdam: Nederlandse Vereniging tot beoefening van de Sociale Geschiedenis, March 1969, pp.14-42. The article discusses the life of Kiès (1895-1968) as a professional soldier; as a member of the SDAP, including his conflicts with the party leadership; his success within the (disgruntled) SDAP department Friesland; Kiès’ expulsion from the SDAP in 1937; Kiès’ founding of the association Het Vrije Woord, with the periodical of the same name, and its conversion into the Troelstra Beweging Nederland (TBN); his (unsuccessful) attempts to arrive at a kind of popular front politics with the CPN; his radical change in 1940 to the ideas of the NSB and the Waffen-SS, in which he also involved the TBN, which subsequently started working closely with the NSNAP of E. H. knight Van Rappard; his anti-Semitism; his pro-German radio talk shows as “De Amsterdammer” from 1944; his arrest in 1945 and, in 1948, the conviction by the Special Court in Leeuwarden to 20 years’ imprisonment and lifetime deprivation of civil rights. Kiès died a few months after the interview.

The interview was conducted on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the Dutch Vegetarian Union. This union was founded on September 30, 1894. The organization represents the interests of vegetarians in the Netherlands. The interviewees are vegetarians from Oosterbeek who in a joint conversation tell about their backgrounds, the motives for becoming a vegetarian, their activities in various associations around this and finally what it means to be a vegetarian.

The following individuals were interviewed:

• E.J. Berkhout
• J.E. Berkhout-Van Diemen
• J. Dissen-Lang

Interviewer: Paul Denekamp

The interviews were conducted on behalf of Philo Bregstein’s film Otto Klemperer’s journey through his times (1973, 95 min). Bregstein made this film about the German conductor and composer Otto Klemperer (1885-1973) on assignment for R.M. Productions. In these interviews, Bregstein paid attention not only to Klemperer’s life but also to the broader musical climate in Germany in the 20th century. Here, attention is paid to the influence of Mahler, Bruckner, Schoenberg and Strawinsky. The interviews are therefore useful for broader music history.

In the early 20th century, Klemperer’s unusual, modern opera staging attracted attention. Klemperer came from a Jewish family and consequently left Germany for the United States in 1933. After World War II, he settled in Zurich. The commentary accompanying the film is largely spoken by the conductor himself, compiled from the interviews. His daughter Lotte also appears in it. The production was later, on May 19, broadcast on German television (ARD) under the title Otto Klemperers lange Reise, which is in the Sound & Vision archives.

The following individuals were interviewed:

• Otto Klemperer (1885-1973)
• Lotte Klemperer (1923-2003)
• Katia Mann (1883-1980), the wife of Thomas Mann. After World War II, like Klemperer, she lived in Zurich. Thomas Mann was a great writer and public intellectual.

Bregstein also made a separate film in 1971 about the rehearsals leading up to the last concert Klemperer conducted in September 1971. This appeared under the title Otto Klemperer in rehearsal and concert (54 min).

The interviews with the Swiss farmer and painter Schäublin (1895-1978) were made for Bregstein’s television portrait of his life and work, entitled Boer and Schilder (farmer and painter) and broadcast by the NCRV on September 1, 1976. Bregstein conducted the interviews together with his wife, the painter Marline Fritzius.

Early on, the former bank employee Schäublin from Basel retired to the mountain village of Klosters to live as a farmer. In his spare time, he painted a total of about 15 works. However, except for a single exhibition, he kept them for himself. In the interview he talks, among other things, about the painter Grünewald, whom he admired, the writers Lev Tolstoi, Jeremias Gotthelf and Thomas Mann, and the influence he underwent from Buddhism and the writings of Lao-tse. He also talks about his view of hectic modern life and about his own work, in which magical-realist, expressionist and symbolist traits can be recognized.

Philo Bregstein interviewed Corinna van Schendel (1909-1985), daughter of the writer Arthur van Schendel (1874-1946). This great Dutch author is known, among other things, for the book Een zwerver verliefd. The interviews were conducted on behalf of a television portrait of her father’s life and work, entitled Dromen van leven, broadcast in the NCRV series “Open Boek” on August 22, 1977. Bregstein and Corinna van Schendel toured places where Van Schendel lived and wrote: Batavia, Florence, Sestri Levante and Amsterdam.

Hendrik Kuiper (born 1897) started as a garden worker in the Westland, was active in the Roman Catholic Agricultural and Garden Workers’ Union and grew further in the RKWV, becoming a permanent employee in 1935. He recounts his experiences in the various positions he held in the Roman Catholic trade union movement until some time after the war. He would eventually become director of the Social Insurance Bank in Amsterdam.

An interesting article on the life of Hendrik Kuiper.

Philo Bregstein in 1969 and 1970 interviewed Jacques Presser (1899-1970), already in his seventies. This historian and writer became known for his book Ondergang: de ververvolging en verdelging van het Nederlandse Jodendom 1940-1945 (The Hague: Staatsuitgeverij, 1965). In 1950, the Dutch state commissioned Presser to conduct a study of the fate of the Jews during World War II. For this, Presser spent fifteen years in the NIOD archives. The published book subsequently became a bestseller. Presser is also the creator of the term ego document and is considered one of the great Dutch historians of the modern era.

First of all, Bregstein conducted these interviews for the purposes of the television film Dingen die niet voorbijgaan, broadcast by VARA on May 8, 1970, and in a second, revised and expanded version on October 19, 1970. These interviews included discussions about his childhood, his choice of history as a subject and his experiences as a Jew during the occupation period. From the interview material, Bregstein compiled the commentary for the film.

This film commentary was in turn published in the book Dingen die niet voorbijgaan. Persoonlijk geschiedverhaal van 1900 tot vandaag / verteld door Jacques Presser; in beeld gebracht door Philo Bregstein, Amsterdam, 1970. In 1981 the book was reissued as: Dingen die niet voorbijgaan. Persoonlijk geschiedverhaal verteld door Jacques Presser / film van Philo Bregstein, Amsterdam: Meulenhoff (film texts), 1981. More extensive interviews were incorporated in: Gesprekken met Jacques Presser. Gevoerd door Philo Bregstein, Amsterdam: Athenaeum-Polak & Van Gennep, 1972

Also see the collection Jacques Presser, where Nanda van der Zee interviewed many people after Presser’s death for a biography.

Bread was the chief component of the workers’ meal, so a good choice to sell in a cooperative. Everyone who was a member of the cooperative could share in the profits, and every worker naturally bought his bread from the cooperative. In the beginning, the activity remained modest, but once the bread was delivered to homes and the distributed profits increased, the cooperative began to grow.

The bakery, which combined advantageous prices with good quality, became a great success. The registration fee was 25 centimes and buyers undertook to buy all their bread from the cooperative. A 6% discount in the form of purchase vouchers and reinvestment of part of the profits quickly made Vooruit grow into a complex organisation with all kinds of activities. People’s pharmacies and shops selling groceries, coal, garments and shoes appeared. By 1901, the company had grown from one bakery with 150 members to several bakeries, twenty outhouses and more than seven thousand members! On the Garenmarkt (now the Anseeleplein), an old factory was bought in which a bakery, as well as a shop, a coffee house and a meeting room were opened. The first Vlaamse Volkshuis was born.

These interviews were conducted as part of the Interview Project entitled “Red or no bread. A practicum in the subject methodology of the Newest Times partim Oral History in the second candidature of History (second Bachelor of History), academic years 1998-1999 (teacher: Professor Dr Bruno De Wever).