This interview series contains two series. See the hyperlinks for the Sound and Vision archive.

The first series is called “De schatkamer – De eerste getuigen van onze eeuw”:

Paul Julien 1901-2001

Interview with 93-year-old anthropologist and chemist Paul Julien. Julien talks about: his childhood in Utrecht; his exclusively science-oriented interest, as a result of which social and political developments during his youth eluded his observation; his expeditions to Africa and what he sees as the positive influence of colonialism on tribal war-torn Africa. Julien shows gloom about the future due to the decline in moral awareness and does not even consider it out of the question “…that we are heading for a Third World War.”

Hilda Verwey-Jonker 1908-2004

Interview with sociologist and former Member of Parliament Hilda Verwey-Jonker (1908) about her childhood on Zuid-Beveland and in Zwolle; the SDAP milieu in which she grew up; the position of women in the early twentieth century; sexuality as experienced by students; her grandchildren; the rise of right-wing extremism in the 1930s and her functioning in male-dominated strongholds such as the SER and the United Nations. Verwey-Jonker fears the consequences of the aging of Western society. According to her, poorer peoples will take over some of the prosperity without having the technical and scientific knowledge to deal responsibly with the environment.

Emile Schüttenhelm 1909-2003

Interview with former NTS president Emile Schüttenhelm (1909) about: the Catholic environment in which he grew up; World War I; rise and fall of communism; the rise of right-wing extremism in the 1930s; his participation in the World Jamboree in 1937 and his meeting with Lord Baden-Powell; his liberation in 1945 and the presidency of the NTS, for which he was asked because, according to Minister Cals, he was the only one who had a chance to “survive” in Hilversum.

Schüttenhelm reminisces about Henk Terlingen and looks positively to the future, since, according to him, every generation has the commitment and creativity the future needs.

The second series is called “De eerste getuigen van onze eeuw”:

Jan Tinbergen 1903-1994

Interview with Jan Tinbergen a.o. about his youth, the end of WW I, his study of physics in Leiden and his contacts with his teachers Paul Ehrenfest and Albert Einstein; his work at the Central Bureau of Statistics mn the fight against the crisis in the thirties; about his transfer in 1936 to the League of Nations in Zurich and the cooperation during WW II with experts on international law like Van Asbeck and van Eysinga t. His research into the role of international treaties; his passivism and anti-colonialism; the research by the CBS into the economic consequences of overseas territories and his criticism of Min. Drees’ attitude regarding de-colonialization policy. He also talks about his research into world issues such as developing countries and environmental problems, which according to him require a global approach through a world government and about receiving the Nobel Prize in 1969. Finally, he gives his vision of the future in terms of an economic balance between production and fairer income distribution and his desire for a more sober and idealistic society.

Willy Corsari 1897- 1998

Interview with Willy Corsari about her unhappy childhood, the artists’ milieu in which she grew up, the origin of the name Corsari, her studies of piano and singing and writing girls’ books, her memories of The Hague and Berlin where she took singing lessons, her life with Jean-Louis Pisuisse’s cabaret company and the history of his murder. She tells about the publication of her first books, including about euthanasia, and her love for the theater, which she stopped attending as a matter of principle during the war; the work of the resistance and helping Jews during the war years and the positive memories of the occupation period regarding mutual human relationships; about the publisher Leopold who committed suicide and her move to cooperative publisher Lubberhuizen/Blommestein (later De Bezige Bij), where she left after conflicts.

Arthur Lehning 1899-2000

Interview with Arthur Lehning about his exciting stay in artists’ and anarcho-syndicalist circles in Berlin in the 1920s and 1930s, the rise of fascism, his views on the political movements of the time, including the Spanish Civil War, his initiative to found the international politically engaged art magazine “i10” and the people, including Mondrian, Kandinsky and Nagy, who contributed to it. He recounts his childhood friend Marsman and the ideological conflict between them in the 1920s; regarding the Spanish Civil War, his reasons for actively supporting the socialist revolution and his stays and encounters there; his experiences in the internment camp on the Isle of Man, England, after the neutralization refusal, regarding his political activities, of the Netherlands, his activities regarding the Cold War and the Paris protest movement ’68. He calls the past century “this terrible age” and sees little positive prospect for the next one.

Jeanne Bieruma Oosting 1898-1994

Interview with Jeanne Bieruma Oosting about her childhood years in the affluence of noble and aristocratic circles; her early love of painting and her studies at the Art Academy in The Hague during which time she met Queen Wilhelmina. She talks about her teacher Van Konijnenburg, her impressionist painting style, her departure in 1929 with Charlotte van Pallandt for Paris and her 11-year stay there where she met Piccaso, among others, and became fascinated by the seamy and nightlife of this city; about her stay in the south of France after the outbreak of the war, the return to occupied Holland and the productive years in Amsterdam. Oosting talks about her painting and graphic work, including the design for children’s stamps and her self-portraits, the stroke that struck her and the happy life she enjoyed.

Chris Walder 1900-1997

Interview with Chris Walder about his childhood in Breda, where he learned to play soccer early on the streets, his first matches, the mobilization and outbreak of WWI and his training to become a notary; playing soccer at NAC, the various matches for the Dutch championship and the various NAC players around 1920-’21; the national championship of NAC, after which he was selected for the Dutch national team. He talks about the fact that back then there was no training program for the team and the big difference with today’s soccer.

He believes he could have come along now as well, because it always remains about the talent.

Cor de Roos-Oudegeest 1899-1998

Interview with Cor de Roos-Oudegeest about her background, memories of the railroad strike of 1903, her father Jan Oudegeest (chairman of the NVV and SDAP politician), WWI and the support committee; the reactions in Dutch socialist circles to the Russian Revolution, her joining the SDAP and her activities for the SDAP women’s union, the rise of communism and fascism and the outbreak of WWII, the occupation years and her husband’s resistance work.

She talks about politics after the war in the Dutch East Indies, about the views of Minister Drees regarding the inferior position of women, her entry into the Lower House for the PvdA in 1956 and the reasons for leaving active politics behind. She sees the greatest changes in this century as the great growth of prosperity and participation, but also a much more selfish society, which makes her feel less positive about the future..

Ten huize van … is a Flemish talk show that first appeared on TV1 (Eén) in 1957.

Each episode, presenter Joos Florquin visited a Famous Fleming or Famous Dutchman and interviewed him in his own home. For three days he installed himself in the home of the person in question, while his camera crew shot footage. Most of the interviewees were from the political or cultural world. The first guest was Gerard Walschap. More than 250 followed. The interviews centered on the interviewees. They were able to talk freely and were only in the picture themselves. In other words, true oral history.

Over the decades, Florquin interviewed an impressive number of people. The interviews were written down afterwards, compiled and published in a series of books. When Florquin died in 1978, the program was also stopped for a long time.

Only in the 1990s did new episodes appear around “At the home of”, this time with Edward De Maesschalck as interviewer (34 episodes). From 2003 Frieda Van Wijck took over the presentation.

An overview of many of the interviewed:

The cultural heritage of design does not consist only of sketches, models, photographs or correspondence of designers. With design, there is also a strong interaction between explicit knowledge and tacit knowledge, knowledge that may be passed on but which usually does not receive written expression. That is why the Flemish Architecture Institute conducted interviews with designers, policy makers and craftspeople. As a result, the interviews do not all cover the same topics and time periods. A mix of young and old and of profession was chosen; furniture maker, artist, design connoisseur and director of Design Flanders all have their say.

The following people were interviewed:

• Leonce Dekeijser (1924-2015), interior architect, he explains that in his college days, “interior design” did not actually exist. He took courses with architects and decorative arts and eventually earned a degree in furniture art. He discusses the teaching methods, the subjects and his teachers. He talks about the interaction between design and education

• José Vanderlinden (1920-?), furniture maker, the emphasis in the conversation with José Vanderlinden is, much more than in the conversation with Leonce Dekeijser, on the technical aspects of furniture making.

• Luc (1953-now) and Katrien Mestdagh (1980-now), stained glass artists, the conversation includes the neo-Gothic tradition in Ghent in terms of stained glass painting, and how it lives on to this day in atelier Mestdagh. They discuss the need for commissioning.
• Achiel Pauwels (1932-now), ceramist, he talks about how he learned the craft, how the teachers did not always give away the secrets of the craft just like that, and what the relationship was with the other art craft courses and the sculpture course. The conversation also explores the emphases he placed in his own classes and the importance he attached to drawing in doing so.
• Moniek Bucquoye (1948-2022), connoisseur and promoter of design, the talk provides an insight into how product development education was shaped in Flanders from a historical perspective. She highlights the difference between product development and industrial design.
• Lieven Daenens (1948-now), former director of the Design museum Ghent. Daenens discusses the evolution of the museum, its change of name and position with the advent of the museum decree in the 1990s. He discusses the quality of Belgian design culture and education in Belgium.
• Johan Valcke (1952-now), director of Design Flanders, the conversation with Valcke gives an insight into how art crafts and design were viewed in Belgium and Flanders from an economic point of view and a historical perspective.

The four interviewers were art historians and artists: Katarina Serulu, Marieke Pauwels, Eva Van Regenmortel and Aletta Rambaut

The interview with Piet van der Ham (born 1910) was made as part of Renate Bergsma’s research internship at SFW in 1995. It was incorporated into her doctoral thesis “Do you speak film? The Catholic filmmaker Piet van der Ham, Amsterdam (doctoral thesis Cultural Studies, UvA), 1995. Under the same title she published an article in the 1994 Yearbook Stichting Film en Wetenschap – Audiovisual Archive, Amsterdam: Stichting Film en Wetenschap, 1995, p.75-101.

Piet van der Ham has been characterized as a Catholic filmmaker. His “discovery” in 1936 as an amateur filmmaker by the filmmaker Otto van Neijenhoff was the impetus for a whole series of commissioned films from that angle. He was theoretically influenced by the Catholic ‘film pope’ Janus van Domburg and the writer-poet A.J.D. van Oosten and more generally by the aesthetic views of the Filmliga. With Van Oosten, he founded the Catholic film group Kafilgro. The amateur film Redt Volendam, made by Piet van der Ham and Goof Bloemen, can be found on the website of Beeld & Geluid.

During World War II he experimented with feature films, together with his friend Alfred Mazure, and worked as a photographer for the Internal Armed Forces. Over the years, he made many film journalistic contributions to newspapers such as De Tijd and de Maasbode and was associated with film magazines such as Filmfront and Filmforum. He was also involved in the Catholic Film Censorship Board. After the war, he made a number of films for the KVP, including the well-known De Opdracht (1956). He also made several corporate films and produced news items for Polygoon and the NTS. Finally, Van der Ham taught film and photography in The Hague.

In the IWM series “Royal Navy: lower deck 1910-1922,” British Petty Officer/Court Marshal William Halter (born 1894) speaks with interviewer David Lance about his time in British Navy between 1911 and 1924.

Halter belonged to the Signals and Submarine section. He was part of the 1st Royal Naval Division, sent to Belgium by the British Admiralty in October 1914, a few months after the start of World War I, to try to keep the city of Antwerp out of the hands of the Germans. When that failed, the British soldiers, along with a million Belgians, fled to the Netherlands. Here, as part of the Dutch neutrality policy, they were interned in Groningen.

The interview was incorporated into Nieuwenhof’s article “Paul Charles Joseph Kiès,” in: Mededelingenblad. Orgaan van de Nederlandse Vereniging tot beoefening van de Sociale Geschiedenis no.35, Amsterdam: Nederlandse Vereniging tot beoefening van de Sociale Geschiedenis, March 1969, pp.14-42. The article discusses the life of Kiès (1895-1968) as a professional soldier; as a member of the SDAP, including his conflicts with the party leadership; his success within the (disgruntled) SDAP department Friesland; Kiès’ expulsion from the SDAP in 1937; Kiès’ founding of the association Het Vrije Woord, with the periodical of the same name, and its conversion into the Troelstra Beweging Nederland (TBN); his (unsuccessful) attempts to arrive at a kind of popular front politics with the CPN; his radical change in 1940 to the ideas of the NSB and the Waffen-SS, in which he also involved the TBN, which subsequently started working closely with the NSNAP of E. H. knight Van Rappard; his anti-Semitism; his pro-German radio talk shows as “De Amsterdammer” from 1944; his arrest in 1945 and, in 1948, the conviction by the Special Court in Leeuwarden to 20 years’ imprisonment and lifetime deprivation of civil rights. Kiès died a few months after the interview.

The interview was conducted on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the Dutch Vegetarian Union. This union was founded on September 30, 1894. The organization represents the interests of vegetarians in the Netherlands. The interviewees are vegetarians from Oosterbeek who in a joint conversation tell about their backgrounds, the motives for becoming a vegetarian, their activities in various associations around this and finally what it means to be a vegetarian.

The following individuals were interviewed:

• E.J. Berkhout
• J.E. Berkhout-Van Diemen
• J. Dissen-Lang

Interviewer: Paul Denekamp

Two years before his death, R.L. Schuursma and Sj. Vellenga interviewed the Catholic priest Wouter Lutkie from North Brabant. This interview discusses his views on Catholicism and fascism.

Wouter Lutkie was a Dutch priest who was constantly at odds with virtually the entire Dutch episcopate – yet was never excommunicated. He was an idiosyncratic, stubborn character and always went his own way. He was however not a loner. He conducted correspondence with hundreds of people, wrote many books and was active as a journalist for decades, especially for his own magazine Aristo. Lutkie was the only Dutchman to be on friendly terms with the Italian fascist leader Mussolini, with whom he was allowed seven private audiences. Lutkie had close ties to fascism, but was never charged with collaboration despite of investigations.

After the war, he continued his work as a priest without office and his magazine Aristo continued to exist. This had since become a literary journal. In early 1965, the magazine had to cease publication for good, due to lack of subscribers. To what extent Lutkie and his Aristo had been fascist or even national socialist remained the subject of much debate. This interview addresses this issue.

For more information about the interview and the interviewee, see: SFW work issue no. 8 (1995), p.31.

The interviews were conducted on behalf of Philo Bregstein’s film Otto Klemperer’s journey through his times (1973, 95 min). Bregstein made this film about the German conductor and composer Otto Klemperer (1885-1973) on assignment for R.M. Productions. In these interviews, Bregstein paid attention not only to Klemperer’s life but also to the broader musical climate in Germany in the 20th century. Here, attention is paid to the influence of Mahler, Bruckner, Schoenberg and Strawinsky. The interviews are therefore useful for broader music history.

In the early 20th century, Klemperer’s unusual, modern opera staging attracted attention. Klemperer came from a Jewish family and consequently left Germany for the United States in 1933. After World War II, he settled in Zurich. The commentary accompanying the film is largely spoken by the conductor himself, compiled from the interviews. His daughter Lotte also appears in it. The production was later, on May 19, broadcast on German television (ARD) under the title Otto Klemperers lange Reise, which is in the Sound & Vision archives.

The following individuals were interviewed:

• Otto Klemperer (1885-1973)
• Lotte Klemperer (1923-2003)
• Katia Mann (1883-1980), the wife of Thomas Mann. After World War II, like Klemperer, she lived in Zurich. Thomas Mann was a great writer and public intellectual.

Bregstein also made a separate film in 1971 about the rehearsals leading up to the last concert Klemperer conducted in September 1971. This appeared under the title Otto Klemperer in rehearsal and concert (54 min).

The interviews with the Swiss farmer and painter Schäublin (1895-1978) were made for Bregstein’s television portrait of his life and work, entitled Boer and Schilder (farmer and painter) and broadcast by the NCRV on September 1, 1976. Bregstein conducted the interviews together with his wife, the painter Marline Fritzius.

Early on, the former bank employee Schäublin from Basel retired to the mountain village of Klosters to live as a farmer. In his spare time, he painted a total of about 15 works. However, except for a single exhibition, he kept them for himself. In the interview he talks, among other things, about the painter Grünewald, whom he admired, the writers Lev Tolstoi, Jeremias Gotthelf and Thomas Mann, and the influence he underwent from Buddhism and the writings of Lao-tse. He also talks about his view of hectic modern life and about his own work, in which magical-realist, expressionist and symbolist traits can be recognized.